The Tabernacle of God - Pt 4 - Wilderness & Worship

Episode 6 - The Tabernacle of God - Part 4 - Wilderness & Worship

Kathryn: I realized that God. God was telling Moses to tell Pharaoh to let his people go so they can worship him. I want to. Which I think should be in the book of Genesis. I want to go back to see what God spoke about this to Abraham. Genesis probable this is titled the Call of Abraham. Now the Lord unto Abram, go from your country and your kindred in your father's house to the land that I will show you. And I will make you a great nation. And I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you. And him who. Who dishonors you, I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed. So Abram went as the Lord had told him, and Lot went with him. Abram was 75 years old when he departed from Aaron before Haran. And Abram took Sarah Sariah, his wife, and Lot, his brother's son, and all their possessions that they had gathered and the people that they had acquired in Haran. And they set out to go to the land of Canaan. When they came to the north of Canaan, Abram passed through the land to the place of Shechem to the. At the time the Canaanites were in the land. Then the Lord appeared to Abraham and said to you, your offspring will give this land. So he built there an altar to the Lord who had appeared to him. Um, from there, he moved to the hill country on the east of Bethel and pitched his tent with Bethel in the west and AI on the east. And there he built an altar to the Lord and called upon the name of the Lord. And Abram journeyed on, still going toward the dead. Now, earlier, when I was reading or listening to God speak to Moses, he said to Abraham and his family, he. He presented himself as mighty God, but he never presented himself as the Lord. So it's funny.

Christopher: Oh, what's the difference?

Kathryn: That's a good question.

Christopher: I'm assuming the Lord is one stronger than the other or.

Kathryn: I don't know. I don't know. But that's what he told Moses. So in. In Mo, when he spoke to Moses, he said, I have presented myself as mighty God to Abraham. I have not shown them the Lord or what have you, or what have you. Then he said so first, when eight When Moses said, who am I supposed to say sent me? He said, tell the. He said, tell Pharaoh and the people I. And then he said later on that, tell them to call me the Lord.

Christopher: So, and when you did that study on the names, a Number of years back, each name meant something different in specific.

Kathryn: It did, but.

Christopher: So there has to be some type of reason for that change. It had to be a positive change.

Kathryn: If it wasn't, it was something that was familiar to them. Because, you know, why? Think about this. They've called. Now that I think about it, Sarah called Abram her lord. Oh. If I'm not mistaken, which gives it reference of, uh, authority or something. I'm not. You know, they use.

Christopher: We need to find out what that is.

Kathryn: Okay.

Christopher: Because there's something specific. There's a reason why she said that, and then there is a reason why God came back and said it to them. Which was first Sarah saying it's a. About Moses or Sarah saying about Abraham, and then God saying it about his people through Moses. I bet they're tied together.

Kathryn: So I wanted to find where it said deeper about how

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Kathryn: God. This is like the beginning of the covenant. Genesis 15, uh, 1:21. All right, so again, we want to really understand what this covenant is about, because the reason why we're talking about this is when God spoke to Moses from the burning bush. He told him, I made a. He said, I've heard your people. He said, I've heard the. No, this is what he said. Your people. But he said, I heard the cries of, um, the Israelites. And he said, and I remembered the promise I gave to Abraham. So it says, after these things. This is Genesis 15:1. In this title, God's covenant with Abel. After these things. The word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision. In a vision. Fear not, Abram. I'm your shield. Your reward shall be very great. But Abram said, oh, Lord God. That's interesting.

Christopher: Lord, again.

Kathryn: But he told Moses he didn't present himself as lord. He presented himself as a mighty God. So we're gonna figure this out. He says, oh, Lord God, what will you give me for I continue childless, and the heir of my house is Eleazar of Damascus? And Abram said, behold, you have given me no offspring, and a member of my household will be my heir. And behold, the word of the Lord came to him. This man shall not be your heir. Your very own son shall be your heir. And he brought him outside and said, look toward heaven and. And number the stars if you're able to number them. Then he said to him, so shall your offspring be. And he believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness. And he said to him, I am the Lord who brought you out from Ur of the Chaldeans. To give you this land to possess. But he said, o Lord God, how am I to know that I shall possess it? He said to him, bring me a heifer three years old, a female goat, three years old, and a ram three years old. A turtle dove and a young pigeon. And he brought him all these, cut them in half and laid each half over, over against the other. But he did not cut the birds in half. And when Burt. And when birds of prey came down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away. As the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell on Abram. And behold, dreadful and great darkness fell upon him. Then the Lord said to Abram, know for certain that your offspring will be sojourners. Sojourners in the land that is not theirs and will be servants there. And they will be afflicted for 400 years. But I will bring judgment on the nation that they serve. And after. And afterward, they shall come out with great possessions. As for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace. You shall be buried in a good old age. And they shall come back here in the fourth generation. So the Israelites will come back to. Is it Canaan? Because this is a different chapter, but okay, the Israelites will go back somewhere and it says. I feel like that because. What was the. What was the story that Joshua and Caleb, they want to go take the land. Is it Canaan?

Christopher: I think it was. Can.

Kathryn: So it says, but I will bring judgment on the nation that they serve. And afterward they shall come out with great possessions. As for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace. You shall be buried in a good old age. And they shall come back here in the fourth generation. For the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete. That's interesting. For the iniquity of the Amorites is.

Christopher: Not yet complete and send enough for God to destroy.

Kathryn: That's crazy.

Christopher: There's a limit.

Kathryn: That shows that right there, when the sun had gone

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Kathryn: down, it was dark. Behold, a smoking fire pot and a flaming torch passed between these pieces. On that day, the Lord made a covenant with Abraham, saying, to your offspring, I give this land from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates, the land of the Kinites, the Kid, the Kidneys, and the Catamanites, and the Hittites and the Perazzites, the Refam, the Amorites, the Canaanites and Jites and the Jebusites. So this is all about Israel right now with the land that they're fighting over? Yeah, I think when you read on the map, this is about Turkey. I don't know if it's about Turkey, but it's. It's like all these countries that's overseas that's supposed to, um. I feel like Turkey and all that stuff is tied to it.

Christopher: Iran, Iraq.

Kathryn: Yeah, yes, yes, yes.

Christopher: Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Afghanistan. That region there.

Kathryn: So as a sidebar, you said, and you've been saying for the past two years, that the Western countries, which is the United States and us like that are missing what God is doing. Everything is going back to the Israel.

Christopher: In the Middle East.

Kathryn: Yeah. So what is it that. Why do you think the Western church is missing it? Is it because the Western church is too prideful?

Christopher: It's been a lot. There's been a doctrine in the church that says that Israel messed up and God will never forgive him.

Kathryn: I don't understand who did that?

Christopher: It started. It started with the, uh, some people in the church that came over here from England.

Kathryn: That's not even biblical.

Christopher: Nope. But it was their unders. It was their level of understanding. You got to realize they didn't get a Bible. They didn't start printing. Printing the King James Bible until 1616. So not everybody had it. Yeah, no heyday. So the Mayflower and stuff came over here in the 15, the 1400s. Columbus, Christopher Columbus. The Mayflower came in the 1515 or 1600s. They only had the. What they were told. They didn't actually have a hand Bible that they could pick up and read.

Kathryn: Okay.

Christopher: So some of the. Some of teachings that they had were with the best knowledge that they had at that particular point in time. The Bible and stuff didn't really start being opened up until our generation. Meaning the 19. Yeah, 1900s or so when they really started piecing together. They started finding the scrolls in, uh, Israel, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and confirming the New Testament, the Old Testament that was in the King James Bible.

Kathryn: The Catholics read from a different Bible.

Christopher: Right. Their Bible has other books in it that the Christian Bible doesn't have. I think it's like 16 extra books.

Kathryn: Why?

Christopher: Um, they believe them to be of God and inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Kathryn: So wasn't the Catholics first?

Christopher: No, the Orthodox Church was first.

Kathryn: What's the difference?

Christopher: The Orthodox Church was closest to the disciples.

Kathryn: Okay. What's their Bible?

Christopher: I don't think anybody's ever. I think they probably actually had Dead Sea Scrolls. I don't know specifically what Bible that they use, but the. The Jewish people carried the tour around in a. In an actual scroll that they had handwritten.

Kathryn: Okay.

Christopher: So I'm Um, at this point in time, I'm going say it was. It literally was the first five books of the Bible. Genesis, Leviticus, Exodus, Deuteronomy, and, um, numbers.

Kathryn: I'm halfway convinced that it's possible that.

Christopher: We don't have everything in our Bible. There's

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Christopher: some things we have what we're supposed to have because we have the Old Testament and the New Testament, but there's some things that are historical. They have information in it that we don't have in that Bible there.

Kathryn: I guess my question is how come all of the churches that started back then don't have the same Bible?

Christopher: Uh, my understanding of that is it started out being, um, the Bible that we have unequivocally, without a doubt, was proven an exact copy, and it was actual eyewitness testimony of something that happened. Some of these other books weren't all the way provable.

Kathryn: Gotcha. No more question. The Book of Enoch. What do you think about that?

Christopher: Another thing. They don't have proof of who actually wrote it. They suspect some of the things that are in there historically are accurate, some aren't. So it's kind of. It's kind of up in the air.

Kathryn: The Book of Jasher, where is that at?

Christopher: Um, that. I don't know if that came at the same time as. Same time as Enoch, but I think the Catholic Bible has that in it.

Kathryn: But going back to the Catholic Bible or going back to the Catholics, why do people feel like they don't trust the Catholics?

Christopher: Because there's been a lot of abuses that have taken place from the leadership in the church.

Kathryn: Okay.

Christopher: And a lot of. A lot of abuses, a lot of misuse of Scripture. Um, there was. There was persecution of those who didn't believe exactly like the Catholics did of anybody else.

Kathryn: But the majority of people are Catholic.

Christopher: There's a lot of people that are Catholic.

Kathryn: Even if they don't live it, they will identify as Catholic first and will.

Christopher: Give tithes and offerings. They. They are die hard.

Kathryn: Okay.

Christopher: And a lot of the things, if you look at what the Catholics do, mimic the things that were being done in the tabernacle.

Kathryn: So I see them doing the candles.

Christopher: Yep.

Kathryn: But the incense. Yeah. Here's the thing, though. Uh, where did they get this Mary stuff from?

Christopher: Uh, the Mary stuff was extra. It came as extra. Somebody had the idea, we gotta honor the mother. How come nobody honored Joseph? Man? Men have a hard way to go. Men have a hard way to go.

Kathryn: And thanks to Adam.

Christopher: Yeah, that sucks.

Kathryn: Uh, but really, really should be Eve. That. Anyway, I'm not even gonna go there. So. So we understand that God, uh, gave Abraham his promise to make him great and he was going to be the father over many or all nations. Don't remember but there's a difference.

Christopher: Mhm.

Kathryn: So he's going to be a father of. I'm gonna say many nations. So I just read 15. But in 17, Genesis 17 it says Abraham and the covenant of circus circumcision. So I'm trying to stay with the. I'm trying to make sure I understand what God spoke to Moses. I feel like it's more than what he said. Uh, because studying this back a while back, it feels like there was a whole section that gave detail and well, I guess I just read it about how they were going to suffer and all that. M. And they were going to come back. Okay, so moving on now. Moving on. Because Abram was considered righteous

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Kathryn: and God it. I don't know if God. I know when Abram was going to sacrifice his son Isaac. That had. That's way down the line because God had already gave him the promise. Because Isaac didn't come yet.

Christopher: Yeah. And at this point he hadn't even had.

Kathryn: Yeah.

Christopher: Um, he hadn't had Isaac yet.

Kathryn: So I was going to say the reason why.

Christopher: So then that it cuz Hagar came in, in the picture.

Kathryn: Right.

Christopher: Or Ishmael.

Kathryn: Right. So that ain't got nothing to do with. I was going to say God gave him his promise because of the sacrifice that he did hate, uh, did to Isaac. But that ain't got nothing to do with it. God had basically. It sounds like, it sounds as if God chose Abraham for, I want to say for whatever reason. But it was a reason why he chose Abraham. Do you know the reason why?

Christopher: It has to be tied to a direct tie back to Adam and Eve in order for him to have uh, that lineage. So that's, that's one reason I think that he did that for Abraham. The other thing is there's something somewhere where somebody was doing something. And I'm gonna say stupid because I can't remember the exact story. And Abraham stood up and said, you can't do this. I think it was his father that was messing up.

Kathryn: Abraham's father.

Christopher: Yeah.

Kathryn: It didn't really say too much about Abraham's father.

Christopher: Uh, not here, but I think it's. It might be in chronicles or something like that that I remember reading that.

Kathryn: And he said, you can't do that here.

Christopher: Yeah, he. He made him stop whatever he was doing. And then God took notice of what Abraham did.

Kathryn: Okay, I know that God said he could trust Abram, but due to the Isaac thing, what has to be his character.

Christopher: I know this is in here.

Kathryn: I still think that Abram was a triplet. I still think he was a triplet.

Christopher: That's why you did say that. Uh, I do.

Kathryn: The Bible is set up specifically in a way that gives you details. And it didn't make no sense that each and every one said, and then and then and then and then and then, and then. Then when it got to Abraham, it said his father had so and so, so and so and so and so and so.

Christopher: Yes, I knew it. Terror worshiped idols. Where is this at? Look at Genesis 11:31, okay? And see what you find in there.

Kathryn: These are the generations of Shem. When Shem was murdered, he was old. He fathered a person two years after the flood. And then Shim lived after he fathered a person 500 years and had other sons and daughters. When that person. Gosh, Arashad. That's who I'm trying to say. When arashad had lived 35 years, he fathered Shalay Shalah. And Arashad lived after. After he fathered Shah for 103 years. That why it seemed like he was young when he fathered a child and had other sons and daughters. When Shalei had lived 30 years. Sheila. He fathered Eber. And Shalei lived after he fathered Eber 403 years after he had had other sons and daughters. When Eber had lived in 34 years, he fathered Peg. And Eber lived after he fathered Peg. What.

Christopher: What's the terror we're looking for? Terror.

Kathryn: All right, so. Huh. Huh. It says when Nahar had lived 29 years, he fathered Tara. Nahar lived after he fathered terror 119 years

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Kathryn: and had other sons and daughters. When Tara had lived 70 years, he fathered. This is how I know. Listen to this. When Tara fought. When Tara had lived 70 years, he fathered Abraham, Nahar and Haran triplets.

Christopher: Dag. There you go.

Kathryn: Now, these are the generations of terror. And terror fathered Abraham, Nahar and Haran. And Haran fathered Lot. Haran died in the presence of his father, Tara in the land of. Of his Kindred, in Ur, of the Chaldeans, and Abraham And Nahar took wives. The names of Abram's wife. Wife was Sariah. And the name of Nahar, Nahar's wife, Milka. Uh, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milka and Isk. Iska. Now Sariah was barren. She had no child. Terror took Abram his son. And Lot the son of Haran, his grandson. And Sariah his daughter in law, um, his son, Abram's wife. And they went forth together from Europe of the Chaldeans to go into the land of Canaan. But when they came to Haran, they settled there. The days of terror were 205 years. And Tara died in praying.

Christopher: It don't. It don't give that account of him doing. Did you find something?

Kathryn: Yeah, go ahead. Going back to the covenant that God made with Abram. Genesis 17. When Abram was 99 years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, I am God Almighty. Walk before me and be blameless. That I may make my covenant between me and you. And may multiply you greatly. Then Abram fell on his face and God said to him, Behold, my covenant is with you. And you shall be the father of, um, of a multitude of nations. No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham. For I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. I will make you exceedingly, exceedingly fruitful. And I will make you into nations. And kings shall come from you. And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you, throughout their generations fore and ever everlasting covenant. This covenant is going to go forever and ever and ever. To be God to you and to your offspring after you give. You and um. I will give to you and to your offspring after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan for an everlasting possession. So they were always supposed to keep Canaan?

Christopher: Yep. And never get rid of it.

Kathryn: And never get rid of it. And I will be their God. And God said to Abraham, as for you, you shall keep my covenant. You and your offspring after you, throughout their generations. This is my covenant, which you shall keep between me and and you and your offspring after you. Every male among you shall be circumcised. You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin. And it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you. He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised. Every male throughout your generations, whether born in your house or brought with your money from any foreigner who is not of your offspring. So I have a question.

Christopher: Mhm.

Kathryn: The Jews are still getting circumcised, right?

Christopher: Yes.

Kathryn: All the babies that are in the hospital are still getting circumcised?

Christopher: Yes.

Kathryn: Okay.

Christopher: By the Eighth day, they're all circumcised.

Kathryn: Okay, so come on. Like, the Bible keeps fulfilling itself, um, over, over and over. So it says, um, every male throughout your generations, brother born in your house or. Or bought with your. Your money from any foreigner. So you know what? I'm gonna tell you this right now. They don't even know how God. People don't even know how God set them up. Um, no, because it's so many babies. Be so many boys that are born and they have to get circumcised for the most part. And they don't even understand what that means. No, no, because they don't know

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Kathryn: the Lord. They just think it's a routine.

Christopher: Not at all. So Joshua 24, verse 2. And Joshua said unto all the people, thus said the Lord God of Israel. Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time. Even terror. The father of Abraham and the father of Nakor. And they served other gods.

Kathryn: Gods.

Christopher: And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood and led him throughout all the land of Canaan and multiplied his seed and gave him Isaac. Genesis 24:2. And Joshua said unto all the people, thus says the Lord God of Israel. Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time. Even Terah, the father of Abraham and the father of Nacor. And they served other gods. And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood and led him throughout all the land of Canaan and multiplied his seed and gave him Isaac. So I noticed somewhere in there where it says that Abraham didn't do as his father did. But the.

Kathryn: Yeah, okay.

Christopher: I knew. I knew God. God hand picked Abraham because of his heart, his nature.

Kathryn: Thank God. So let me finish reading this, and then I'm go back to. I'm gonna go back to Moses. So it says, so shall my covenant be in your flesh. Oh. So when they get circumcised, it's a.

Christopher: Sign of the covenant.

Kathryn: Oh, my gosh.

Christopher: Yep.

Kathryn: And people don't even realize.

Christopher: No.

Kathryn: That they're being covered by God.

Christopher: Yep.

Kathryn: Just in case they ever want to come on over and serve God. They are already set up, uh, where God can see that. That covenant and he can say, hey.

Christopher: And that circumcision was a serious thing because there were some people that was supposed to get circumcised and they didn't do it. And I think Moses got sick. No, it was Abraham. Abraham was supposed to circumcise somebody and he got sick. And his Wife wound up having to do it. She went through the camp, and then after that, God relented of the punishment because he was listening to his wife.

Kathryn: That's interesting. That's. That's interesting.

Christopher: It was either Abraham or Moses. One of them too.

Kathryn: I feel like it's Moses.

Christopher: They didn't get the. They didn't. He didn't.

Kathryn: So this is what I heard today. I don't mean to point at you, but this is what I heard today. When Moses told his wife that he. He needed to go back to see if his people were still alive or something like that, I heard real quickly that she circumcised somebody. And she said, you're. You're something is to. Is to me. I said, what? Like, I was listening, but I was like, wait, what? And I knew that was significant, whatever she just did as Moses.

Christopher: Yeah, because she. Because she wouldn't. She would not allow him to circumcise her kids. His. Her kids or something like that. And she wouldn't. She wouldn't do it. She wouldn't let Moses do it. Moses. Like we have to. So Moses got sick.

Kathryn: That sound familiar? But I don't think that's the part that I heard. Only that's the part I heard. All right, so going back to Moses, the burning bush. Then Moses was. Was keeping the flock of his father and father in law, Jethro, the priest of Midian. And he led his flock to the west side of the wilderness and came to Az, the mountain of God. And the angel of the Lord appeared to him in the flame of fire. Out of the midst of the. Of a bush he looked, and behold the. The bush was burning, yet it was not consumed. And Moses said, I will turn aside to see this great sight. Why the bush is not burned. When the Lord saw that, he turned aside to see God, uh, called to him out of the bush. Moses, Moses. And he said, here I am. Then he said, do not come near. Take your

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Kathryn: sandals off your feet, for the place on which you are standing is a holy ground. For. And he said, I am the God of your father, father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.

Christopher: Yep.

Kathryn: Then the Lord said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people who are in Egypt. And I heard their cry because of their taskmasters. I know their sufferings. And I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, to break them up out of that land to a good and Broad land, a land flowing with milk and honey. To the place of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, and the Perizzites and Hetes, and the Jebusites. And now behold, the cry of the people of Israel has come to me. And I have also seen the oppression of which the Egyptians oppressed them. Come. And I will send you to Pharaoh that, that you may bring my people, the children of Israel, out of Egypt. Now, before all this took place, it said that all his people died off.

Christopher: Mhm.

Kathryn: And this Pharaoh didn't. Joseph.

Christopher: Sorry, Joseph.

Kathryn: People died off. Pharaoh didn't know Joseph. People.

Christopher: The new Pharaoh. There arose a Pharaoh who didn't know Joseph and what Joseph had done for Egypt.

Kathryn: Egypt. Correct. Not for Egypt.

Christopher: Yeah, for Egypt. Yeah.

Kathryn: So, okay, so all he knew was the Israelites were, uh, strong and they were multiplying. And he got afraid. He was like, listen, these people gonna take us out and they're gonna side with, with our enemies, uh, if we don't do something about this. So this is what. When he started to have his people enslave them. So now their cries have come up to God. And God said, but Moses said to God, who am I that I should go to Pharaoh and bring the children of Israel out of Egypt? He said, but I will be with you. And this shall be the sign for you that I have sent you. When you have brought the people out of Egypt, you shall serve God on this mountain. To. They were supposed to go back to mountain Mount Horem, um, to serve. Now, now that I'm thinking about this, is this where the wilderness is at? Is this because God is saying, I want them to go into the wilderness to, to worship me?

Christopher: Yes, because when they looked at the journey that they were supposed to take after they left Egypt, it was only supposed to be 11. 11 days to get them to the promised land.

Kathryn: Okay, so here it is. Then Moses said to God, if I come to the people of Israel and say to them, the God of your fathers has sent me to you. And they asked me, what is his name? What shall I say to them? God said to Moses, I am who I am. And he said, say this to the people of Israel. Me to you. God also said to Moses, say this to the people of Israel. The Lord, the God of your fathers, the. The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob has sent me to you. So not only did he say, say this, um, I, um, the. I am. Then he said, the Lord didn't catch on to that until now because Earlier I told you that God, uh, said I didn't present myself to them as the Lord.

Christopher: Yeah.

Kathryn: So then he said, the Lord, the Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob has sent me to you. This is my name forever. Yeah, the Lord, this is my name forever. Thus, and thus I am come to be remembered throughout all generations. Go and gather the elders of Israel together. Um, the Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac and of Jacob, has appeared to me saying, I have, I have observed you and what has been done to you in Egypt. And I, uh, and I promise, promise that I will bring you up out of the affliction of Egypt to the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, and the, you know, all of the ice, a land flowing with milk and honey. And they will listen to your voice. And you and the elders of Israel shall go to the king of Egypt and say to him, the Lord, the God of the Hebrews, God is. God is breaking us down thing now.

Christopher: Yeah, it's very detailed.

Kathryn: It is, has met us. Uh, you know why? Because I think, I think the way that God presents himself,

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Kathryn: I can't really say it right now, but anyway, it's a reason why he presents himself to certain people.

Christopher: Because they proven themselves to him.

Kathryn: No. Yeah, that's not it. Because he just said this. He said, the Lord, he said, go. He said, go to the king of Egypt and say to him, the Lord, the God of the Hebrews has met with us. Uh, and now please let us go in three a three a three days journey into the wilderness that we may sacrifice to the Lord our God. Uh, but I know that the king of Egypt will not let you go unless compelled by a mighty hand. So I will stretch out my hand. That I will do in it. After that, he will let you go. So God told Moses, uh, up front what was going to take place.

Christopher: Yep.

Kathryn: And you'll hear a little bit. Um, he said, and I will give. Give this people favor in the sight of the Egyptians. And when you go, you shall not go empty. But each woman shall ask of her neighbor and any woman who lives in her house for silver and gold jewelry and for clothing, you shall put them on your sons and your daughters. So shall so you shall plundered the Egyptians. So make a long story short, I really wanted to read how God kept saying that he wanted the people to worship him. I do remember God telling after he presented this to Moses, Moses again basically said, God, please Send somebody else. I can't speak. God was telling him, God encouraged him that he could do it. He said, who? He said, who's the one that gave you a mouth to talk, the eyes to do, you know, this and all this? He basically said, I got you. And then he said, God, God, please just send somebody else. And then God's, um, anger burned against Moses. And he said, how about Aaron? He said, he's on his way to meet you now. He'll be happy to do it. So make a long story short. Aaron comes, and he doesn't necessarily question God. Aaron doesn't. But God ended up saying to Moses that I will make Aaron be the mouthpiece, but I will make you be like God to Aaron. I thought that was interesting because I've never heard him say that before. So basically he was saying, the people's gonna listen to Aaron. They're gonna listen to Moses too. But he basically said, I'm gonna have him speak on your behalf because I'm gonna tell you, you what to say and what to do. Yeah, but I'm, um, gonna make Aaron. I'm gonna make you be like God to Aaron.

Christopher: Yep.

Kathryn: So it was.

Christopher: Show that relationship.

Kathryn: Yeah.

Christopher: The importance of the relationship.

Kathryn: Yeah. So make a long story short. God had constantly told Moses and Aaron to tell

Pharaoh to let the people, people go, um, because he wanted them to go out into the wilderness to worship him.

Christopher: So what actually did worship mean?

Kathryn: That's what we're going to find out next time. Because I have to. I really think in my. Off the top of my head, I would say worship is to. To love God, uh, honor him, serve him, um, live like him, follow him, obey him. You know, all of these things. Just all of these things that to me, when you worship somebody, you love them. There's a. There is something that is unique and special about them. They're not like nobody else. So I know that God knows that about himself, and I know that he knows that people don't understand that about him. And it's. It's just a date. The people at that point, because Joseph and his people have got. They died off in a new group of people came in that didn't

00:45:00

Kathryn: serve him in this land. I feel like God, uh. And we're going to tie this back into the tabernacle. I feel like God, uh, wanted to show himself strong by keeping the covenant that he gave Abraham. Because he told Abraham, they're. They. They're going to belong to me. I'm going to dwell with them basically saying, this is Going to be the everlasting covenant. They're going to always be your. Your seed. Your descendants are going to always belong to me. And so I think this is where God was trying to come back in. Because he heard the cries of the people. He remembered Abraham. He's like nails.

Christopher: The time they were ready.

Kathryn: Yep. Now's the time.

Christopher: Their hearts have been. Been prepared.

Kathryn: Yeah, their hearts have been. But you know what, though? Uh, you know the story. Cuz they go out here. The first thing that Moses did after God told him to say this to Pharaoh, Pharaoh flipped out and made them work even harder. And the people said, you know what? You go back and you tell the God that you serve that he's dead wrong.

Christopher: Yep. We want our leaks and our garlics.

Kathryn: No, that ain't even it. He bas. They basically said that conditions had become harsh. Why? Why would you do that? So then Moses goes back to God and said, God, is this the reason why you had me go and say this like something's not right because Pharaoh is not doing right? And then God said, now you're gonna see how I'm there for the. For the Israelite people. Um, he said, now you're gonna see what's going to happen with Pharaoh. And he breaks it down. He's going to say, I'm gonna tell you to go back and do this. Pharaoh's not going to do it. He said, I'm going to harden Pharaoh's heart. But the people in Pharaoh, he said, all Egypt, all of the Egyptians are going to see who I am. Um, oh, everybody gonna see me. By the time when. When he started talking about how the dirt, the darn water turned into blood and the fish died. And they said everything stunk.

Christopher: Yeah.

Kathryn: I said, oh. And they couldn't drink the water.

Christopher: Nothing. Huh?

Kathryn: It was it. Okay.

Christopher: Can you imagine everywhere being that way?

Kathryn: But listen. Nothing like listen. I'm pretty sure I couldn't even bathe in it. But listen. Yeah, that didn't even. That didn't even catch Pharaoh rose. That didn't even soften his heart. Dag on frogs did.

Christopher: The frogs bothered you didn't.

Kathryn: Yeah, I couldn't believe. That's when he relented and was like, okay, okay. He said, pray for me and tell your God enough is enough. But Moses said, I will give you, he said, will put it back in your hands so you could tell me when to pray and what time to pray and all that stuff. So he. He softened his heart a little bit, I want to say. But when he saw that the that God came through and all the frs got killed. They died and all that stuff. Uh, he looked, he said, yeah, yeah. When he saw that, it was. That it was a relief. He hardened his heart again and was like, nah, all going to go ahead and do what I told y' all to do. Okay, so here it is. You didn't want to do right by the frogs. You did. You wanted to do something stupid. God had. God made nats. God told dag on Moses or Aaron. It was a. I think, I think it was a he. I think it was. He said, said, take this staff. That third staff has some stuff with him.

Christopher: Yeah.

Kathryn: Uh, he said, take this staff. And I want to say, he said, hit the dust or, or something with it. And when he did that, all of these gnats came. They were on everything. Everything. I mean, they were eating up stuff. They were on the people and all that stuff. And then, um, I think Pharaoh was like, all right, well, y' all can, y' all can. Y' all not going out in the wilderness. Y' all can make a sacrifice here.

Christopher: Mhm.

Kathryn: And Moses was like, no, that wouldn't be right.

Christopher: That ain't gonna work.

Kathryn: Yeah. He said, that wouldn't be right. He said, because your people are not going to honor my Lord. And he said, and God told us we have to go out in the wilderness to do this. So Moses got mad about that, but I ended up cutting it off shortly after that. So.

Christopher: That'S, uh, good.

Kathryn: M. I know this ties back to the tabernacle because this is the very beginning stages

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Kathryn: of God bringing his presence.

Christopher: Yes.

Kathryn: His making the people aware.

Christopher: Yes.

Kathryn: That he is the Lord. The Lord, and that he's real. He's the same God, uh, that they heard about, about some years ago from their fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Now he's here saying, hey, I'm. I, uh, promise you I'm going, I'm going to rescue you. I promise you. And y' all gonna come out here on this mountain and y' all gonna serve me. Y' all gonna worship me.

Christopher: So is this possibly where they came up with the strange sounding doctrine that God wanted a family?

Kathryn: Oh, my gosh, that's dumb, isn't it?

Christopher: It is. But he. He did all of this stuff for eight people.

Kathryn: Do you think that's dumb or no?

Christopher: No, it. It is crazy for them to say.

Kathryn: That God wanted a family.

Christopher: What's a family?

Kathryn: That don't sound right.

Christopher: But do you think, do you think this is where they possibly got that from?

Kathryn: It's possible.

Christopher: Yeah.

Kathryn: But you have.

Christopher: They got some kind of reasoning going. And I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's just.

Kathryn: I'm about sick of this because you know why I'm sick of the church? Because I realize that the church is.

Christopher: Making up a whole bunch of stuff as they go.

Kathryn: Yeah. Because here it is. They want to be the, the, the, the one that bring in something new that people ain't never heard before. And if you buy it, oh, they sell good.

Christopher: And it's better to say, I don't know, I'll try to research it and see what I can find if God shows me. If not, I don't know.

Kathryn: What do you think about the biblical scholars or the, the, the theologians?

Christopher: The ones in Jesus's day?

Kathryn: No, the ones that they have out.

Christopher: Now that today, if you're not an open, honest person and willing to find the truth no matter what your particular group is, you're wasting your time. So there are a lot of good people who are trapped in denominations and the denomination says, you got to believe this, but they've researched it and the research shows it's not this that was put out there. So the ones who are honest enough to say, hey, my denomination says this, but this is actually what I see. This is what the evidence points to. This is what the Scriptures point to and we should follow that.

Kathryn: I don't think I've heard people say that.

Christopher: No, but it's, it's true though, because if you're taught by somebody who's wrong.

Kathryn: Yes.

Christopher: And messed up.

Kathryn: Yes.

Christopher: They're only going to teach you what they know.

Kathryn: Yes.

Christopher: And if they teach you from a perspective of I am the only one who knows, you're not going to deviate from that. That because. Well, I must be wrong because I'm not getting it the same way that he got it or she got it. So there's, there's error that continuously gets repeated and multiplied in some of the quote unquote scholars that are out there. Some of the scholars are good, but they're good because they're, they only want the truth. No matter what their group comes. The group that they come from says.

Kathryn: Let me ask you this. Listening to Perry Stone and his research that he gets from other people in Israel and all that stuff, I think to me that's very interesting because these people don't necessarily believe Season is.

Christopher: No.

Kathryn: So for him to gain all of this knowledge and all this friendship that he got from people, different people that he's been working with for. Over the years. They know stories and they're like, okay, this is. And they actually showed him certain parts of Israel that goes along with the Scriptures. Um, I would trust them

00:55:00

Kathryn: over some of these other theologians.

Christopher: Yeah.

Kathryn: Because I think that there is. There's definitely an error somewhere, somehow, some way.

Christopher: There's an intellectual dishonesty.

Kathryn: There it is. There it is.

Christopher: There's an intellectual dishonesty because, again, we are human. We're subject to making mistakes. We're subject to understanding things from our perspective. The biggest thing is if we don't try to understand it from the Jewish perspective, we're going to be lost completely.

Kathryn: Okay.

Christopher: But our American perspective or the Brazilian perspective or the Canadian perspective, you know, it's based upon those cultures. They have nothing to do with the Jewish culture whatsoever. So it's not going to make sense. It's not going to, uh, line itself up. But if we try to learn what the Jewish culture is about and then open ourselves up for the. The Holy Spirit to show us what's going on, we're more likely to get truth about what's going on than something that's going to be false or in an error.

Kathryn: What do you think the word feast means?

Christopher: Feast? Yes. I believe that God intended for people to eat on a feast. The feast of Trumpets, the Feast of Tabernacles. Those are, you know, and if you look at those things, they had food, they prepared about a bountiful harvest. You know, they brought the best out.

Kathryn: The reason why I asked that, because I told you how one of the versions that I read today, which I think was the niv God said, I want my people to come out into the wilderness to have a festival. But when you look it up, in the King James version, it said to have a feast.

Christopher: Really?

Kathryn: So when I looked up the word feast, same thing I thought about what you said. I'm thinking they're going to get. Have a dinner and all this stuff. But it actually said a feast is tied to sacrifice, which is why in scripture, later on, Pharaoh gets upset and said, y' all are lazy. That's why you keep saying you need to go out into the wilderness to sacrifice.

Christopher: Well, uh, there was something that you read tonight that it talked about all of the things that Abraham needed to bring. Yes, the turtle doves, the goats. Yes, all of that. Yes, that is a sacrifice. But what they did with it once they got cooked, they ate it. The priests. You. When the priests kill all them animals. Yeah, that they do. And they. And they drain the blood and they take the blood and they spray, sprinkle it. Yeah, they put, put that stuff on a fire and they eat. They eat, the priests eat. And some of the, some of the corruption that took place within the church was because the priests were eating things that they shouldn't have been eating. Or they were mad because the sacrifices was too small.

Kathryn: What?

Christopher: Yeah. What you bringing me this skinny cow for? You need to bring me the fat. I feel like I heard that before the fattened calf. Because you're, you're dishonoring God. Now when you look at the, the sacrifices that was done for with Moses and the angel, you know, Moses prepared the food, got it ready, and the angel ate it. Whatever the food was, it either the angel either ate it or consumed it.

Kathryn: Are you talking about Moses or Abraham?

Christopher: Both. I think both of them did a sacrifice where they. Because, because they said, hold on, let me go get you something to eat.

Kathryn: That was Abram.

Christopher: And they prepared it, cooked it, did whatever they had had to do to get it ready. And the angel consumed it. I think they used the word consumed. But the whole thing with the sacrifice was, yeah, they were sacrificing to cleanse themselves. The blood was taken from the animal to separate them from the things of this world, to cover them from the repentance of their. To cover them from their sins.

01:00:00

Christopher: But the sacrifice, it's got eaten.

Kathryn: When God said, I want my people to come out into the wilderness, he wanted to set them apart, didn't he?

Christopher: Yep.

Kathryn: Dag on it.

Christopher: Yep.

Kathryn: He wanted to set them apart so.

Christopher: They could be his.

Kathryn: His forever. Okay. Because a feast is tied to blood. Yes.

Christopher: And live animals that you kill. And this. It's an offering that is put up. Hey, here's. Here's these two halves of this bull. Here's these two halves of this turtle dove. It's cooked.

Kathryn: Cooked. I'm so glad that you. I don't think I can live. What do you call that? The person that does.

Christopher: The me, uh, butcher. A butcher? Yeah. Hey, so. So think about this from a different perspective. The Jewish people have delis. They can cook some meat. Lamb.

Kathryn: So this is what I feel is happening. Guys kept his word. Like he told Moses, like he told Angel. He said, I'm gonna keep my covenant. I'm gonna keep my promise. If you're gonna keep yours. And your people gonna belong to me. They're gonna serve me forever. So why did. Why do people say. Cuz it was an everlasting covenant. Everlasting. So why do people think that God went back on his promise and said that the Israel people are not forgiven.

Christopher: So when the Israel people got into sin, they got judged and they got kicked out of the land. Yes.

Kathryn: So but God also said, not gonna be mad at you forever.

Christopher: Yes. That is the part that the modern day church forgets.

Kathryn: And then God started telling them, you come back to me. Come back to me. I'm here.

Christopher: Yep. I'm gonna restore you.

Kathryn: Yeah. I'm gonna restore you back into your rightful place in the kingdom. Kingdom, you know, just whatever. I don't know if I just said that. Yeah. But basically, he basically was like, all is well, all is forgiven.

Christopher: So couple couple different angles to think about. They got kicked off of the land for not honoring the Sabbath. The land was supposed to rest. So for all of the years, years that they sinned by not honoring the Sabbath, God made the land to rest and booted them off of it.

Kathryn: So this is why the book of Genesis is first, because it talks about how God created the earth. So that Sabbath day is real, that Sabbath day is holy.

Christopher: Yep.

Kathryn: And set apart.

Christopher: Yep. And God's people are spiritual, supposed to live holy and set apart.

Kathryn: Yes.

Christopher: And follow them laws.

Kathryn: Why do you think God set the Sabbath? What is so special about the Sabbath?

Christopher: To honor him.

Kathryn: Okay.

Christopher: And it's, it's. The scripture says he rested. Yes, he rested. He didn't do nothing. And that's what, that's what it was intended as a remembrance. God did this 100%.

Kathryn: So going back what I was going to say, and I'm gonna let you go. Um, so God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Abraham, saw his people, basically said, now it's time to restore to, to. To basically rescue my people. He used Moses and Aaron in ways that would be signs, wonders and miracles. Because for one, these people didn't know God. So here it is. They're outside of, um, whatever. Even though they belong to God. They didn't know that necessary because when Moses came to them, he asked God first, who, who am I supposed to say, who sent me? So then they didn't believe Moses. And Moses said to God, they didn't

01:05:00

Kathryn: believe me because they was discouraged behind the hard work. He said, if the Israel, if your people don't believe me, how is Pharaoh going to believe me? M. So God started again saying, when all this is over and done with, they going to know who I am. And that's when God started sending the plagues and all that stuff. Uh, so make a long story short. I understand more now. I never really understood that God Kept calling them out into the wilderness to worship him. I've never heard that part before. So this is good to know.

Christopher: And then so with the word worship real quick, that sacrifice is a part of worship.

Kathryn: Yeah.

Christopher: Which is a part of what they do in the tabernacle. Because you're in that outer court, you clean that sacrifice up, you clean yourself up, you get sprinkled with the blood, the inner court. Something special happens. I don't remember exactly. You're preparing to go into the holy of holies. So once the main priest goes into the holy of holies, he makes atonement for the entire body of believers. If he's right and righteous, he walks out of there if they. They drag him out.

Kathryn: So you're gonna have to break down what the outer court is in the.

Christopher: Inner court and holy. Holy sh. Because there's specific things that have to happen. And I think as. As we're. As we're putting this all together, you're gonna see that this is acts of worship, parts of worship. So we enter into his gates with thanksgiving and praise. You know, that's surrendering your heart. That's opening your, your mouth, opening your spirit man, to receive him through the air that you breathe. As you're praising, you know, it's an exchange. You're in and out. Um, there's going to be. There's going to be a. A exchange of admiration, you know, that's expressed from you as the believer. There's going to be a setting apart.

Kathryn: Here's the thing, though. I'm smiling because before we get to all of that, here go these d. Ten commandments. They don't like the ten commandments.

Christopher: No, no. Because it's a reminder of what your. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Kathryn: Yeah. Yeah.

Christopher: From the, from the get go. From the start.

Kathryn: Huh? God wasn't playing. When, When God opened up. That D. Brown didn't even say nothing to Moses. He said, get away from these people.

Christopher: Yeah.

Kathryn: God darn it. Huh? Come on. On. Come on. We got to bring. We got to bring the truth to the people. We're going to have to speak truth in a way that maybe other people have.

Christopher: The rest of the church has never heard the tr. The rest of the church has never heard this. If they did hear it, it was. It was real quick, fast, and in a hurry.

Kathryn: Yeah, we're. They didn't.

Christopher: It didn't connect.

Kathryn: Yes, yes.

Christopher: And it's got to connect because if we're going to be the people that God uses to make them jealous for them to completely come in, we're going to have to know what they know. We're going to have to apply the same scriptures that they apply to themselves. The same. Same understanding about God's holiness, the separation, the sacrifices that was done. Jesus is our sacrifice, so we don't have to kill anything ever again because he did it. So getting them to understand that, we're gonna have to understand it in a way to be able to explain it to them.

Kathryn: So right here, I feel like I'm in the beginning, and what you just said is towards the end. And I'm like, dag. It's so much that we're gonna have to review, take in and know from the deepest part of ourselves the truth.

Christopher: And this is how we learn who God is.

Kathryn: Yes, yes.

Christopher: And once we have that, you know, it'll. It's a fulfillment of prophecy because you're not going to go through anybody else. You're going to have an individual

01:10:00

Christopher: relationship with God. Every one of the billions of people who's ever lived will have an opportunity to have a singular relationship with God and a group relationship as the body of Christ.

Kathryn: That's true. That is true. True. I got to use the bathroom real quick. When I was studying, um, Abel and.

Christopher: Ca, I did a research on.

Kathryn: Somehow I did research on God saying, um, if you not. If you don't do well, the word well just pulled up so many scriptures. You will come to find that, that this is what God spoke to these people. He told Moses to say, if you do this, it's going to go well. Yeah, it's going to go well. All throughout the Old Testament. If it's going to go well. No, he says, do this. This is what he says, uh, do this. So it will go well?

Christopher: Yes.

Kathryn: And it was almost like I just saw a list of different scriptures where it was the same frame phrase over and over. And it was. So it will go well with you?

Christopher: Yes.

Kathryn: Or go well in your life, whatever the case may be. And I was like, dad, I didn't know that all of this was in there. And it took me back to the very beginning of what he told Kane. If thou does, doesn't, um, does it does well, will you not be. Whatever. Whatever this is, this was from the very beginning.

Christopher: Yes.

Kathryn: This is from the very beginning how God has not changed. He wanted Adam and Eve to do well.

Christopher: Yep.

Kathryn: And when they didn't do well, it felt they failed. And then he started teaching. Uh, God himself started teaching, um, Cain and Abel. And it's like, y' all already know. This is why Abel had came. Cuz Abel's heart was right before me. He did well, you know you supposed to do well. Cain, what are you doing? Cain didn't care. Kane fell for the. The deception or whatever. His whatever. And so Kane got booted out. But I said, God, this is crazy. I don't think that people understand to the degree what God. How God pleased with his people. To do the right thing.

Christopher: Yes.

Kathryn: Uh, to do the right thing.

Christopher: And everything has been given to us to do that.

Kathryn: Yes.

Christopher: We, we have. We have all the knowledge that we need. We have all of the help that we need. Uh uh. It goes down to the point of. There's no excuse.

Kathryn: Yes.

Christopher: For you to not lift. Live righteously.

Kathryn: Yep.

Christopher: You can't blame your mother, you can't blame your father, you can't blame your pastor.

Kathryn: Right.

Christopher: None of it.

Kathryn: Right. But this is just the beginning.

Christopher: Mhm.

Kathryn: I want to, I want to carry on with Exodus. I think you really stirred. Stirred my buttons when you started that tabernacle in, in Exodus, I think.

Christopher: Yeah.

Kathryn: And I was like, hold on, hold on. Let me just start in the book of Exodus to see what's really going on here.

Christopher: So this is Leviticus, chapter 10, verse 12. And Moses spake unto Aaron, and unto Eleazar, and unto Ithamar, his sons that were left take the meat offering that remaineth of the offerings of the Lord made by fire and eat it without leaven beside the altar, for it is most holy. And you shall eat it in the holy place, because it is your due and your son's due. Of the sacrifices of the Lord made by fire. So I am commanded. And the wave breast and the heave shoulder shall you eat in a clean place, you and your sons and your daughters with you, for they are due and thy sons do which are given out of the sacrifices of peace offerings of the children of Israel. The she, the heave shoulder and the wave breast shall they bring with the offerings made by fire of fat to wave it for a wave offering before the Lord. And it shall be yours and your sons with you by a statue forever, as the Lord has commanded. And it goes on to say more. But the priest was supposed to eat that. I don't think anybody's ever put that together. That the sacrifices that was offered up, God was taking care of them. And I, I remember some stories, um, about the priest being upset because they didn't get.

Kathryn: The people some skinny stuff. Yeah.

Christopher: Or they was asking for double offer.

Kathryn: I think you told me that.

Christopher: Yep.

Kathryn: Was it. Aaron's son.

Christopher: I think Aaron's son did some of that. Phineas and Hoffney and Phineas did some stuff, too, that they shouldn't have done. But this Bible ain't no joke. Uh, I feel it.

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Episode 6 - The Tabernacle of God - Part 4 - Wilderness & Worship